Well the answer is pretty simple as well. Platforms get targeted and
supported based on having someone step up and agree to support them.
The meego-ivi-ia32 images target and support specific platforms based
on contribution from folks that considered the graphics driver for
those platforms to be a key element. Admittedly these folks are trying
to sell hardware by demonstrating their HW specific value to large
vendors.
My experience with MeeGo has been that we can't do IVI specific
development without managing HW specific dependencies. There are
simply too many different input and output components with differing
driver dependencies and for embedded devices, little Plug and Play
capability. I think these dependencies will be increasing in the
future as more IVI specific features are added. A common generic
default image would probably be limited to VESA graphics and
keyboard/mouse input, a 2D PC image. This would remove the ability to
include any MeeGo applications or applications with rich user
interfaces, including scrollwheels, touchscreen, dual display,
animation, automotive sensors etc.
would cause a system to unuseable are video cards drives. Other
running if you so desired). I bring this up, as you could include/support
out the video subsystem in a default IVI release.
I am interesting in getting this working on my own carpc... I finally
figured out how to get MIC2 installed on my home machine. Now to learn
in the repo).
regards
Joel
-----Original Message-----
Sent: Thursday, August 18, 2011 1:45 AM
To: Clark, Joel; Nasa
Subject: RE: [MeeGo-ivi] do you know when MeeGo 1.2.0.2 will be available
Joel
- 1.1 was usable on wide range of HW
- 1.2 suddenly become usable on _VERY_ limited HW
And the answer to question "why?" is somewhat strange.
That's it - as simple as it looks.
And proposal was simple as well - please keep video driver more generic by default.
It would be great to have SandyBridge support, but it isn't main intention of discussion.
Regards
--
Grigory Abuladze
Application Solutions (Electronics and Vision) Limited.
-----Original Message-----
Sent: 17 August 2011 18:23
To: Grigory Abuladze; Nasa
Subject: RE: [MeeGo-ivi] do you know when MeeGo 1.2.0.2 will be available
We did it because
1) Sandybridge was never identified as a target platform for the
meego-ivi-ia32 bootable image.
2) Nobody proposed, planned, resourced or contributed to creating a
bootable IVI image for Sandybridge.
3) the IVI platforms identified as target the meego-ivi-ia32 bootable
image all are supported by the "wrong" video driver (EMGD)
4) the QML based applications developed for MeeGo 1.2 ran dog slow
without graphics HW acceleration.
If anyone wants to propose, plan, resource or contribute to creating a
bootable IVI image for Sandybridge, I would be very happy to provide
my support for their efforts.
The key is to have a kickstart file to build the image, someone to
test the results and fix any issues reported.
regards
Joel
-----Original Message-----
Sent: Wednesday, August 17, 2011 10:11 AM
To: Clark, Joel; Nasa
Subject: RE: [MeeGo-ivi] do you know when MeeGo 1.2.0.2 will be available
- Head Unit Manufacturers (xxx xxx) are not yet convinced in IVI
- We are trying to demonstrate them what it will be and how it will look
- To do it we take ExoPC(WeTab) and provide them demo (sort of)
- Also to simulate what would be possible in case of more time is
spend on optimization and/or what will be feasible in near future we
would like to use Sandy Bridge based tablet.
This simple way did work up to 1.2 release of ivi...
And the only things why it is now broken - it's because "wrong" video
driver is embedded into release image!
Why? Why did you do it?
Typing one line in console after installation - is what is "saved" by
embedding EMGD and how many pain and problems it brings?
I don't see problem in validating IVI only on specific HW and in same
time releasing generic image(s). It will left door slightly open for
everyone else who don't have this HW.
Thansk
--
Grigory Abuladze
Application Solutions (Electronics and Vision) Limited.
-----Original Message-----
Sent: 17 August 2011 15:55
To: Nasa; Grigory Abuladze
Subject: RE: [MeeGo-ivi] do you know when MeeGo 1.2.0.2 will be available
I apologize for the pain. :-). Actually I've felt quite a bit if it
too when it comes to trying to create a visually compelling experience
on embedded HW systems. We have found considerable HW and driver
specific dependencies. In general the idea was that each platform
champion would provide the adaptations required for their platform.
This would probably have produced multiple sample IVI boot images for
different platforms. So far this has not happened. We have been
struggling with the resources we have just to keep a couple of
platforms adaptations working sufficiently to enable the graphically
rich apps we borrowed from other devices, and voice recognition and
text to speech, and touchscreen all working. I think all of these are
essential to an IVI experience and should at least be able to be
demonstrated on platforms. Same explanation for the Rotary Dial
support, we just have not had enough folks contributing support for
different I/O devices to enable more that the one sample dial.
But trying to preserve a consumer out of the box experience has proven
to be a hindrance to enabling innovation on a wide variety of
platforms, particularly since the IVI HMI/UX landscape is so varied.
Which is why I suggested moving to a developer oriented out of the box
experience.
I deeply appreciate the folks like Nasa and Alison who have not only
preserved through the multiple variations and change to MeeGo
direction that have made following MeeGo IVI difficult, but have
continued to contribute their time and knowledge to help the rest of
the Community despite the difficulties. You guys do have impact,
perhaps more so than the large but silent corporate teams that prefer
to stay one step removed from active participation. Any lack of change
in response to your comments is primarily a result of lack of
developers to change the bits. This is certainly the case in the
absence of an IVI build for the S10-3T and Pandaboard etc which we
have really wanted to be able to do, but just have not had folks to
make it happen.
(with my stupid mail client, I also appreciate being able to top-post :-) )
regards
Joel
-----Original Message-----
Sent: Wednesday, August 17, 2011 4:28 AM
To: Grigory Abuladze
Subject: Re: [MeeGo-ivi] do you know when MeeGo 1.2.0.2 will be availablefo
Grigory,
I feel your pain.
There are some disconnects between what is being developed and
what is being expected. A good place to start reading up on this
is a thread I started back in March "Supported Hardware", see
(some who have followed this list will remember me bring that
thread up not so long a go).
Futher investigation reveals that the IVI team has a very specific and
limited view of what constitutes an IVI system, which is aimed more
at commerical entities than the casual potential user. This statement
isn't meant as a knock on anyone, it's more of an observation. Most of
that
hardware isn't readyly available for hobbiest, which is a small set as it is,
limiting thier involvement.
The problem is that mixed signals were sent out about this at the begining of
the Meego project. So the statement from Bug 17351
(directly related to this thread, read it), "Since we are discussing
hardware that this was never intended for, I am marking Resolved invalid."
does kinda of get under my skin (1st and only thing I will say on that
comment).
I think the idea of seperating the IVI from the UX is/would help clarify
this for anyone looking to jump in (where the none UX would be the *official*
item releases). As the direction this effort has gotten clearer, Joel
has
been doing a better job of communicating all of this.
Nasa
BTW: The integration of the new drivers isn't the first instance of this
disconnect -- the touchscreen issue (bug 12777 I believe) is a result of
the same thinking. As is the inclusions of a specific rotary dial...
----- Original Message -----
Post by Alison ChaikenAlison
I have to say that 1.2 release has already dropped all of us who use
ExoPC and other non new EMGD compatible things.
As I can see 1.1 had sw " rasterizer" as default and thus
- anyone was able to install it on various HW
- and add preferable driver later
I have no idea why this way was broken in 1.2 release, but it drops
out a lot of people. They tried "new" release and it just doesn't work
for them - so they simple walk away to do something for Android or
iOS.
I remember list member NASA has provided some "workaround" and it was
quite popular topic ). But not all of us can/want to spend time to try
dancing around to "fix" drivers issue.
I would like to extend your proposal to keep it general and end user
will decide which HW specific driver to install. And yes - proper
naming will be definitely helpful here.
Grigory.
--
Grigory Abuladze
Application Solutions (Electronics and Vision) Limited.
Tel: +44 (0) 1273 409147
-----Original Message-----
Sent: 16 August 2011 16:55
To: Clark, Joel
Subject: Re: [MeeGo-ivi] do you know when MeeGo 1.2.0.2 will be availablefor ivi
Joel, what I'm really thinking about is the many Lenovo Ideapads and
ExoPCs that Intel has generously given to developers: thank you! I
would hope that as the repos are refreshed, that AppUp participants
whose expertise is in QML rather than Linux graphics are not going to
get their machines borked if up they "zypper update" from trunk.
I suggest that someone (Bob Spencer, Amar Kona . . . ) make it
clear what the best update path for developers using this older
hardware is. Otherwise when 1.3 drops, a lot of folks using older
HW may be unhappy. It's already a bit confusing about which graphics
RPMs to use with which Atom processors. Perhaps the EMGD RPMs could
have "sandybridge" or whatever in the package name.
--
Alison Chaiken
(650) 279-5600 (cell)
http://www.exerciseforthereader.org/
INplanatory documentation: that which sucks comprehension right out of
the reader's mind and destroys it.
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